1 - Everything is Full of Gods: Thales
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In this episode, Peter Adamson of King's College London introduces the podcast as a whole, and the thought of the early Greek philosophers called the Presocratics. He also discusses the first Presocratic philosopher, Thales of Miletus.
Themes:
Further Reading
K. Algra, "The Beginnings of Cosmology," in A.A. Long, The Cambridge Companion to Early Greek Philosophy (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1999), 45–65
D.W. Graham, Explaining the Cosmos: The Ionian Tradition of Scientific Philosophy (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2006)
E. Hussey, “The beginnings of epistemology: from Homer to Philolaus,” in Epistemology, ed. S. Everson [Companions to Ancient Thought: 1] (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1990), 11-38
Comments
In reply to Thales's main theoretical contribution to Western philosophy? by Joó Gábor
Thales
Thanks! Yes that makes sense but I'd probably be more cautious and ascribe this breakthrough to the early Presocratics more generally rather than Thales in particular. It's highly dubious that he thought everything comes from water the way that the Stoics think everything comes from fire, though maybe this kind of "material monism" does emerge somehow amongst the Presocratics that come prior to Parmenides. It's really Aristotle who tries to fit Thales into that sort of picture. Also worth noting is that it seems to be an idea we can find in non-Mediterranean cultures, e.g. in the Upanisads (see the episodes on that in the India series...).
In reply to Thales by Peter Adamson
"I'd probably be more…
"I'd probably be more cautious and ascribe this breakthrough to the early Presocratics more generally rather than Thales in particular."
- yeah I agree, this sounds like a more cautious approach. I guess we could say it was a cluster of thinkers who broke with traditional cosmology then?
Thanks for the reply, I'll definitely check out the episode on the Upanisads!
In reply to "I'd probably be more… by Joó Gábor
Material monism
Yes, exactly. Anaximines actually seems to be a good candidate with his account based on air, which sounds more like air is actually transforming into the other elements. But it seems to have been an intituion driving all the Milesians and also Heraclitus (in his case, fire).
Cosmology, God(S) and Soul and the self theme (Thales)
This episode should have three additional themes
1. 'Cosmology' (his ideas on water).
2. Soul and the self - regarding magnets
3. God(S) - "all things are full of Gods" - regarding magnets
I'm re-listening to the series from the beginning and will jot down anything you might have missed
In reply to Cosmology, God(S) and Soul and the self theme (Thales) by dukeofethereal
Themes
Great thanks - I have taken most of your suggestions on these first few episodes. One can tell that the Themes function was invented much later so we didn't tag early episodes very thoroughly.
In reply to Themes by Peter Adamson
Regarding usage of themes early on
I've notice that you added more tags to episodes around the time you reached 14th century Latin Christendom thus your earlier episodes on Greco-Roman/'Islamicate' world philosophy (philosophy under the political rule of Islam) and pre 14th century Latin Christendom had fewer tags as you weren't using it as often.
I'll give you a hand to whenever a tag is needed and you can use your judgement to see if I was correct professor. I like re-listening to your series and I tend to listen it to your website.
In reply to Regarding usage of themes early on by dukeofethereal
Tags
It's having the side benefit of prompting me to add alt text to the images on each page; when I set up a new page I always do that now but a lot of the old pages are missing it.
Thales and the Mythological Worldview
I am curious as to why Thales began asking questions. Clearly he was not content with the mythological worldview which he inherited, but why was that? Was it because he encountered local mythologies (Ionian or Persian) which disagreed with the Homeric/Hesiodic worldview?
Many societies which we would call "indigenous" have mythological explanations of the world which function well, in that they both keep their society in balance with the ecosystem in which they live and also nourish its members in a spiritual and psychological way. So it occurs to me that I shouldn't consider Thales as the first to start asking questions, but perhaps as one of the first in the Greek world to find his culture's mythological explanations unsatisfying-- even though in other places (such as Central America) the collision of mythologies has resulted in assimilation, not doubt. What do you think?
Thank you for your amazing podcast!
In reply to Thales and the Mythological Worldview by Jay Leeming
Thales and myths
That is a great question and of course a lot of the scholarship devoted to the Presocratics addresses the issue. One slight adjustment I'd make to the question is to focus it more on Xenophanes than Thales, since for the former we have fragments that actually seem to challenge mythic conceptions directly, whereas that doesn't really hold true for Thales. Also I tend to think that this "mythos/logos" or "myth/critical reason" contrast is too blunt to be helpful; like, is Hesiod not also offering answers to cosmological questions? Are the early Upanisads on the myth or critical side? Having said that I think you're still right about the ecology point, and probably we need to link the Presocratic development to other developments e.g. transition to written from oral culture. It's even been suggested that there is a parallel in the use of coins as money, a similar move to abstraction!
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